Yellowtail ! on nov 20 Catalina

[fishtaco]

hook up ! we yelled as the reel started screamming, it could only be a yelowtail, But it took off most of my 30 # line at the first run, it was very strong, mad, pissed off, I pulled back, forward 3 cranks, back/forth 3 cranks,for 5 minutes and the sucker took off again, even at 30% drag, man! then we started dancing around the boat, motherf-ish! I got positioned at the corner of the boat, it was not too big , about 13-15 lbs, but it had lots of attitude, the gaff missed once,twice, and finaly, it got it in the lip, next to the hook, over the rail and left it on the floor, here you go, on the deck the yellow was breathing hard, looking at me, like saying now what? Picture! I told my friend Gus, what? take a picture quick, he snap a quick one and I tossed the yellow back to the sea, Eddie nooo! he said, I wanted the head for soup, My friend is old timer filipino and loves Yellowtail head-soup, But like a matador who knows a great bull fight and does not kill the bull, I had to let it go, the great yellowfighter is back in the sea, it left slowly, like showing off, ready for the next fight. pictures tomorrow
I got two more on freelined sardine, my jig casting reel took a beating, i need to replace it, any suggestions on long casting reels?

[PlatinumHooks]

Depending on the line rating you're throwing with, The AVET SX, MXJ, or JX will do the job better than you can imagine.

Good report.

[NulodPBall]

Originally Posted by fishtaco

...my jig casting reel took a beating, i need to replace it, any suggestions on long casting reels?

===

Tony of course, likes Avet.

A friend of mine likes Saltigas and Trinidads, but they can be expensive.

Me, for what I think you're wanting to use it for, I use SL20's, SL30's, and my Trinidad. The SL's cast pretty far and are pretty quick on the retrieve. My TLD14 I mainly use for bait, but I have seen someone take a 45 and toss at least three times further than my max distance, underhanded.

I guess it depends on your budget.

Let us know what you pick

Oh, BTW, my YT yesterday were all fighting like they were about 10# heavier than they really were once they woke up...and my mom did chastise me for not bringing her the heads...

[sonics7]

p-332

[NulodPBall]

Originally Posted by sonics7

p-332

===

I like that also...the gear engagement lever has a really, really short throw...in the interest of keeping my gear consistent with only two manufacturers, I gave up my brand new one

The Newell plant is up near LA I believe...I like being able to walk into a factory and have the head tech take care of my stuff.

[fishtaco]

I'm still looking for a better iron tossing reel, in the meantime, I Got me a Newell P 332 5 paired it with old reliable Calstar 90J and Tested it at the park (early, to avoid people) with a hookless Salas jr, my max distance increased about 10%, good , but a early bird wise a--s asked me if I catched anything, ha-ha... -a sucker, I told him.

[DementedFish]

Nice report. Saltigas, Trinidads, Newells, and Avets are the way to go for sure.

[cst]

try the Penn Baja Special too.

[Beresford13861]

if you cant afford the saltigas/avets get a saltist, there nice reels! and they dont break the wallet.

[NulodPBall]

Originally Posted by fishtaco

I'm still looking for a better iron tossing reel, in the meantime, I Got me a Newell P 332 G not the alluminum, paired it with old reliable Calstar 90J and Tested it at the park (early, to avoid people) with a hookless Salas jr, my max distance increased about 10%, good , but a early bird wise a--s asked me if I catched anything, ha-ha... -a sucker, I told him.

===

Nice...pay attention to the condition of the drags if you get on bigger fish with that reel...also, I've read somewhere that you can increase your casting distance by decreasing the viscosity of the lube on your bearings. I think someone actually makes lube in different viscosities for that purpose. I'm assuming that you have to relube more often with the thinner viscosity stuff. If your thumb is not edumacated enough, you'll get a snarl...10% is good. One of my friends tosses bait (not iron) about three times further than I can...I like not worrying about snarls so I play it safe most of the time. His rod tip is more flexible than mine.

[fishtaco]

Thanks for all the info. you guys rule.
I'm tossing surface tadys with 30 lb test,
what is the best reel and rod combo to cast far away a tady 45?
what is the technique involved?
loading the rod, how is done?

so far I'm not the best at this, but I can cast pretty far, budget is not a problem, results is what I'm after, I'm sure a lot of newer fisherman can benefit from your info.

[NulodPBall]

Originally Posted by fishtaco

Thanks for all the info. you guys rule.
I'm tossing surface tadys with 30 lb test,
what is the best reel and rod combo to cast far away a tady 45?
what is the technique involved?
loading the rod, how is done?

so far I'm not the best at this, but I can cast pretty far, budget is not a problem, results is what I'm after, I'm sure a lot of newer fisherman can benefit from your info.

===

Well, everyone has their own preference and I just know what works for me. I've seen a deckhand outcast me underhand on my 270-8H with a TN-14 (you have to buy the rod clamps separately for cork wrap) using 25# line and a Tady 45...seriously, he cast about twice to three times as far as I've seen anyone else do it, and he did it on the first try, with no snarls. My friend who outcasts me throwing live bait uses a softer tip rod with a Saltiga on it. He can also out cast me with jigs and either a Trinidad (TN-12?) or a Calcutta TE-GT.

I could be wrong but here's what I've noticed about casting for long distance, using a conventional reel:

1. You want the initial speed to be as fast as possible.
(20-30,000 RPM if you believe the Shimano DC writeups)

2. You want your moving (but basically static) weight to be as light as possible (think about performance bicycling, or your torque calculations) so that you don't have to overcome as much inertia to get Item 1 (high initial speed).

3. In order to get Item 1, you need to seriously load your rod up when casting. This means that if you're afraid of breaking your rod, you have the wrong rod. I have used a Lamiglass rod rated 6-12# to throw lead all the way across the American river, below Nimbus dam...you need to match your gear properly.

4. After the start of your cast, after your rod has straightened out, your spool will spin faster than your line is going out...your lure and your line will encounter wind resistance, and start to slow down almost immediately. As a practical matter, this means that if you don't slow down the spool properly, you will get a rats nest in your line and will be hating life, because once you kink your line, it has a greater tendency to re-kink again. If you were to watch a high speed video, you could actually watch as the top portion of your line starts to look loose on the spool just before you get your rats nest...and the worse the rats nest, the deeper the loose loops go into the spool. You'd be amazed at how far down you can get loose loops.

5. After the initial slow down, your lure will travel at a relatively constant rate, in an arc...this is where you will get most of your distance.

6. As your lure reaches the end of it's travel, it will start to lose energy, and instead of going directly away from you, it will start to travel more downward, and as a result, your line will start to slow down again, and your spool will start to outspin your line and you can get a rat's nest again.

7. When your lure hits the water, you need to stop the spool immediately, or suffer another rat's nest.

8. Generally, if you increase your lure weight, you will get further distance, up to a point. Once you reach that point (determined by your rod, your reel, and your skill) you could throw a Mack Truck but you won't get anymore distance.
We toss alot, and for distance when salmon fishing, and in order for me to toss far, without snarling, I need about 4 inches of pencil weight. A friend of mine, in order to toss further than my normal distance with the 4", needs only about 3/4 of an inch of lead. Yes, he does have better gear (his is a TE, mine is a standard Calcutta 200 and he has a better rod) but he can still do the same thing with MY rod. I believe that's where the "skill" comes into play. I went as far as six inches of lead, but that didn't increase my distance at all.

I'm going to put those eight observations together into a plan for casting far:

Note: when I say "bait" I mean either your jig/lure or the weight on your rig, not live bait.

A. In order to achieve item 1, you need to really huck your "bait" hard in the beginning...you pretty much need to snap your rod forward fast enough that your rod bends in half, and then you stop your rod when your butt section or largest rod guide is pointed in the direction you want your bait to go. If you snap your line doing this then you either need to get another (softer tip) rod, use heavier line, or untangle the snarl that you didn't notice at the beginning of the cast.
If you accidentally hit someone in this portion of the cast, and you don't split their skull open, then you weren't putting enough energy in the cast. When you get better at it, you can flick it without using much energy because you can achieve the higher tip speed because of practice.
If your rod tip and butt are not pointing in the same direction (back tward you) at some point, then your're doing something wrong.
If your eyes are quick and you have the time, you can watch your rod unload, and it looks like someone uncoiling rope out into a straight line.
If your bait hits the water in front of you, within one rod length, then either you released the line too late, or your reel is too slow (which means that you have to release earlier), or you suck...take your pick

In stage 1 of your cast, if your reel sucks, you can get away with not thumbing your spool because the temptation is to just let it freespool for longer distance. If your reel is good, you HAVE to have your thumb in contact with your line until shortly after your rod straightens out. This doesn't feel natural, but if you don't, you'll get a rat's nest. Once your rod has straightened out, after you first release the spool, then you can lighten up on your thumb and just let your bait sail. This is where you'll get most of your distance in your cast. Just pay attention for when your line starts to slow down.

B. In order to achieve item 2, your spool needs to be as light as possible. That's why the Calcutta TE drills out it's spool. That's also why some people like graphite spools. It's also why you need to use as small a reel as possible for what you're going to do. It's also partly why you should avoid the Wide Spool version of the reel you're going to use, and many people prefer the narrow spool versions. This is also why the freshwater bass reels are smaller and lighter than their saltwater versions...because you cast "bait" more and you can get away with less so you can cast further. This is also why I prefer my SL 20 or my Calcutta for casting hardbait instead of my old Penn 500. You have to thumb the 500 so much that you start to lose your fingerprint on your thumb, and you can easily blister your thumb with the 500.

C. Thumb your reel again at the end of the cast as everything slows down.

D. Once your bait hits the water, stop the spool completely and then release it once the bait starts to sink if that's what you want it to do.

recap: To throw bait long distances:

1. SNAP your rod forward, FAST.
2. When you release your reel spool, don't lose contact with the line on your spool, keep a tiny bit of pressure on your thumb.
3. Once you get past that initial release (thumb heavy) and your spool is rolling, you can lighten up on the pressure (thumb light) and just follow the arc of your bait with your rod tip. When your rod starts to get parallel with the water, you'll need to pressure your spool more (thumb heavier) until the bait hits the water (thumb stop).

Using this technique and the right rod/reel/line, you can cast almost anything from a 1/100 oz. mini-jig (they do exist) to a 6 oz. "iron". Of course the mini-jig will require a more flexible tip than the "iron" because the mini-jig can only bend a more flexible tip in the "snap" portion of the cast.

another view of the recap:

-SNAP
-sail
-thumb-slow

you'll know if you made a mistake along the way.

Hint: if your reel has adjustable casting brakes then do a test cast for the first cast of the day, a cast not as far as your farthest casts, and then use that cast to adjust the casting brakes. Almost any change in your reel can affect how much of the casting brakes you need to use...experience will tell.

I hope I was clear about what I believe is needed for a good cast, feel free to correct me if needed

[NulodPBall]

Hey, after re-reading my last post for clarity, I just realized that I ignored the one thing that will prevent people from practicing casting for distance: SNARLS!

Don't worry, you'll know when you have one.

They're caused by your line loosening up off your reel, and then jamming up on itself, and then loose loops form and some of them will catch on other loops, or pieces of the reel and prevent your spool from spinning.

It IS possible to occasionally ignore the loops, especially if you can still short cast, but trust me on this, you need to get rid of the snarls as soon as possible and don't allow your line to load up when there are any kind of kinks or snarls on your reel. If you use cheap line, the loose loops will actually slap against the reel crosspieces often enough to break the line. If you use good line, even if you mess up, it will tend to not kink, or loop up as easily as cheaper line.

If you are trying to cast further, with a lighter weight, you will snarl, and most people will just cut their line in frustration, when they could've spent a little more time working with the line and freed the snarl.

Your fingers and your vision are your best tools for undoing a snarl, but I find that a flat, blunt tool for teasing the line helps alot at times. I have a knot tying tool that has a small blunt end piece that's split and I use that end to help me out.

Rule 1: Never cut your line, or allow the loose end of your line to come near your reel.

Rule 2: Every snarl is fixable as long as you follow Rule 1.

Every snarl consists of a bunch of loops going into places they don't belong. Sometimes those loops catch on the levelwind piece. Many times, the area you need to free is nowhere near where you see the problem loop appears to be, so one of my first moves is to just pick at ALL the loops to loosen everything up, not just the ones that are preventing line from going out. I just kinda do this at random, and many times I'm rewarded with a free spool...this solves the problem often enough that I keep trying it...just pull some line out gently to test if you freed the running line from the loops. Never pull hard enough to kink the line.

There's usually one loop that's the whole "lynchpin" of the snarl and if you can get it out on the first try, you're golden.

If that doesn't work, then I patiently try to figure out which loops need to be freed in order to get the running line free, and I pick at it with my blunt tool. This part needs alot of practice, and unfortuneately, I have ALOT of practice underneath my belt. I have actually had snarls bad enough that if I were to cut even one loop, I'd lose 2/3rds of my line on my spool. At night or in the dark it's harder to untangle snarls, so at one point in October, I believe I had gone through over 4 quarter pound rolls of 8# line at about six hundred yards a roll...that's over 24,000 ft of line. And that's with me untangling my line in the day

This whole process is easier to follow if you can watch someone doing it, but it is easy...it just needs patience.

Good luck and happy casting

[fishtaco]

I hate them bird nest, i hate them the most whe the yellows are bitting, and you're waisting time undoing the stupid nest, everybody's casting and yelling hook up !, and the darn thing won't go away.
-Thanks for the info. some guys take 2 or 3 rods with the same set up and undo the nest when the bite cools down, everybody gets them stupid snarls, but nobody's as big and meesed up like mine, darn it !
-wetting the line helps me avoid them too and saves my thumb

[NulodPBall]

I'm short and stubborn, if it's W/O I have to hop onto the bait tank to get my spare out of the rocket launcher...