How to cast for long distances with a conventional reel :)

[NulodPBall]

This post is originally from a response in a thread (http://www.hookupsportfishing.com/fo...narl#post87785)

and I thought it would be useful here.

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Originally Posted by fishtaco

Thanks for all the info. you guys rule.
I'm tossing surface tadys with 30 lb test,
what is the best reel and rod combo to cast far away a tady 45?
what is the technique involved?
loading the rod, how is done?

so far I'm not the best at this, but I can cast pretty far, budget is not a problem, results is what I'm after, I'm sure a lot of newer fisherman can benefit from your info.

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Well, everyone has their own preference and I just know what works for me. I've seen a deckhand outcast me underhand on my 270-8H with a TN-14 (you have to buy the rod clamps separately for cork wrap) using 25# line and a Tady 45...seriously, he cast about twice to three times as far as I've seen anyone else do it, and he did it on the first try, with no snarls. My friend who outcasts me throwing live bait uses a softer tip rod with a Saltiga on it. He can also out cast me with jigs and either a Trinidad (TN-12?) or a Calcutta TE-GT.

I could be wrong but here's what I've noticed about casting for long distance, using a conventional reel:

1. You want the initial speed to be as fast as possible.
(20-30,000 RPM if you believe the Shimano DC writeups)

2. You want your moving (but basically static) weight to be as light as possible (think about performance bicycling, or your torque calculations) so that you don't have to overcome as much inertia to get Item 1 (high initial speed).

3. In order to get Item 1, you need to seriously load your rod up when casting. This means that if you're afraid of breaking your rod, you have the wrong rod. I have used a Lamiglass rod rated 6-12# to throw lead all the way across the American river, below Nimbus dam...you need to match your gear properly.

4. After the start of your cast, after your rod has straightened out, your spool will spin faster than your line is going out...your lure and your line will encounter wind resistance, and start to slow down almost immediately. As a practical matter, this means that if you don't slow down the spool properly, you will get a rats nest in your line and will be hating life, because once you kink your line, it has a greater tendency to re-kink again. If you were to watch a high speed video, you could actually watch as the top portion of your line starts to look loose on the spool just before you get your rats nest...and the worse the rats nest, the deeper the loose loops go into the spool. You'd be amazed at how far down you can get loose loops.

5. After the initial slow down, your lure will travel at a relatively constant rate, in an arc...this is where you will get most of your distance.

6. As your lure reaches the end of it's travel, it will start to lose energy, and instead of going directly away from you, it will start to travel more downward, and as a result, your line will start to slow down again, and your spool will start to outspin your line and you can get a rat's nest again.

7. When your lure hits the water, you need to stop the spool immediately, or suffer another rat's nest.

8. Generally, if you increase your lure weight, you will get further distance, up to a point. Once you reach that point (determined by your rod, your reel, and your skill) you could throw a Mack Truck but you won't get anymore distance.
We toss alot, and for distance when salmon fishing, and in order for me to toss far, without snarling, I need about 4 inches of pencil weight. A friend of mine, in order to toss further than my normal distance with the 4", needs only about 3/4 of an inch of lead. Yes, he does have better gear (his is a TE, mine is a standard Calcutta 200 and he has a better rod) but he can still do the same thing with MY rod. I believe that's where the "skill" comes into play. I went as far as six inches of lead, but that didn't increase my distance at all.

I'm going to put those eight observations together into a plan for casting far:

Note: when I say "bait" I mean either your jig/lure or the weight on your rig, not live bait.

A. In order to achieve item 1, you need to really huck your "bait" hard in the beginning...you pretty much need to snap your rod forward fast enough that your rod bends in half, and then you stop your rod when your butt section or largest rod guide is pointed in the direction you want your bait to go. If you snap your line doing this then you either need to get another (softer tip) rod, use heavier line, or untangle the snarl that you didn't notice at the beginning of the cast.
If you accidentally hit someone in this portion of the cast, and you don't split their skull open, then you weren't putting enough energy in the cast. When you get better at it, you can flick it without using much energy because you can achieve the higher tip speed because of practice.
If your rod tip and butt are not pointing in the same direction (back tward you) at some point, then your're doing something wrong.
If your eyes are quick and you have the time, you can watch your rod unload, and it looks like someone uncoiling rope out into a straight line.
If your bait hits the water in front of you, within one rod length, then either you released the line too late, or your reel is too slow (which means that you have to release earlier), or you suck...take your pick

In stage 1 of your cast, if your reel sucks, you can get away with not thumbing your spool because the temptation is to just let it freespool for longer distance. If your reel is good, you HAVE to have your thumb in contact with your line until shortly after your rod straightens out. This doesn't feel natural, but if you don't, you'll get a rat's nest. Once your rod has straightened out, after you first release the spool, then you can lighten up on your thumb and just let your bait sail. This is where you'll get most of your distance in your cast. Just pay attention for when your line starts to slow down.

B. In order to achieve item 2, your spool needs to be as light as possible. That's why the Calcutta TE drills out it's spool. That's also why some people like graphite spools. It's also why you need to use as small a reel as possible for what you're going to do. It's also partly why you should avoid the Wide Spool version of the reel you're going to use, and many people prefer the narrow spool versions. This is also why the freshwater bass reels are smaller and lighter than their saltwater versions...because you cast "bait" more and you can get away with less so you can cast further. This is also why I prefer my SL 20 or my Calcutta for casting hardbait instead of my old Penn 500. You have to thumb the 500 so much that you start to lose your fingerprint on your thumb, and you can easily blister your thumb with the 500.

C. Thumb your reel again at the end of the cast as everything slows down.

D. Once your bait hits the water, stop the spool completely and then release it once the bait starts to sink if that's what you want it to do.

recap: To throw bait long distances:

1. SNAP your rod forward, FAST.
2. When you release your reel spool, don't lose contact with the line on your spool, keep a tiny bit of pressure on your thumb.
3. Once you get past that initial release (thumb heavy) and your spool is rolling, you can lighten up on the pressure (thumb light) and just follow the arc of your bait with your rod tip. When your rod starts to get parallel with the water, you'll need to pressure your spool more (thumb heavier) until the bait hits the water (thumb stop).

Using this technique and the right rod/reel/line, you can cast almost anything from a 1/100 oz. mini-jig (they do exist) to a 6 oz. "iron". Of course the mini-jig will require a more flexible tip than the "iron" because the mini-jig can only bend a more flexible tip in the "snap" portion of the cast.

another view of the recap:

-SNAP
-sail
-thumb-slow

you'll know if you made a mistake along the way.

Hint: if your reel has adjustable casting brakes then do a test cast for the first cast of the day, a cast not as far as your farthest casts, and then use that cast to adjust the casting brakes. Almost any change in your reel can affect how much of the casting brakes you need to use...experience will tell.

I hope I was clear about what I believe is needed for a good cast, feel free to correct me if needed

[BeachBear]

I like it Ray, we should have a HOOKUP casting practice day when the Barracuda show again.

[NulodPBall]

Originally Posted by BeachBear

I like it Ray, we should have a HOOKUP casting practice day when the Barracuda show again.

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We should take a picture: The side of the boat is lined with HUSF members but no line is in the water...the call comes out "JIGS AWAYYYYY!" and all of the sudden, like a rain of arrows, fourty TADY-45's sail through the air in a perfect line, all of them going 200 yards, and many of the rods get bent immediately as the barracuda boil switches to the sea of blue-and-white jigs that suddenly appears...

Or we can figure out which dock, quay, or rivermouth they're running and practice there and maybe "accidentally" catch a shad

[BeachBear]

As you can see by my articles I'm dropper loop happy. I don't cast very well at all unless I have a level wind, even then I think I can get 60 yards. Let me know when we can cast practice, maybe El Dorado Park.

[fishinkid]

well i just typed up a whole seminar on casting and my computer went weirdo so i will sum it up casting is a art not a science throw your tady 45s away and stock up on the salas 7x s go get yourself a old style avet jx narrow 4/0 or a jig master now a properly tuned jigmaster will outcast your overpriced trinidads and the drags last longer.get a 7 foot or longer rod i perfer 8-10 footers. next fish izor and only izor if izor is not available fish ande(big game blows) now if you wanna ask why do i say this well i dont get bought by gimmics and i use what works if you have any other questions just ask if you have an opinion just say it

[cst]

izor is my line of choice too but it definatly isnt a good casting line it's strength makes up for it though.

[NulodPBall]

Originally Posted by fishinkid

...a properly tuned jigmaster will outcast your overpriced trinidads and the drags last longer...

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I learned to cast on a Jigmaster, and the ability to change spools if you need a different line is a great cost saver (I kept 15, 20, 25, 40# line on different spools...the only time I got spooled was on 40# and I couldn't crank down the drag tight enough to even turn it's head). The only problem with learning to cast a Jigmaster is that you definitely will loose some of the skin on your thumb, even if you do wet your line, and you can't really cast light weights far. The spool is too heavy to get that quick speed initially unless you use a heavier weight. Yes, I've seen people cast far with a Jigmaster...but then again, I've also seen an orange Chevy Nova on a super lifted offroad truck frame...it is possible

[marlintuna]

Learn on a Penn 500 and every reel you will ever own after will be effortless. I like my Daiwa Sealine 30 with my CalStar 800M Graphighter for here in San Diego boats it's perfect. Good luck, lots of good points here and it comes down to personal preference for sure. Casting is an art that takes lots of practice like anything.

Rob
www.sportfishsandiego.com

[cst]

not too many reels cast as far as a jigmaster, granted you're using enough weight.

[mamoo]

Originally Posted by fishinkid

well i just typed up a whole seminar on casting and my computer went weirdo so i will sum it up casting is a art not a science throw your tady 45s away and stock up on the salas 7x s go get yourself a old style avet jx narrow 4/0 or a jig master now a properly tuned jigmaster will outcast your overpriced trinidads and the drags last longer.get a 7 foot or longer rod i perfer 8-10 footers. next fish izor and only izor if izor is not available fish ande(big game blows) now if you wanna ask why do i say this well i dont get bought by gimmics and i use what works if you have any other questions just ask if you have an opinion just say it

id have to say this is prbly the least informative thing i have ever read lol. no offence. you recommend an avet, narrow 4/0 and a jig master, none of which cast rearly as well as a newell. also, the jig master ht 100s will glaze over after long fights as the drags continue to heat. also, if you are good at casting, any line will work just fine. yes, izor casts well but big game does too.

[Doomz]

I got a magazine that has an article that show you what set up will get you 100+ yards on a cast. I'll post it tomorrow......

[tompayne]

Why the hell would you want to cast over 100 yards? If you're talking about casting on open party boats and you have to cast that far, your captain sucks. If you're talkin about from shore and have to cast that long, buy a float tube. Other then that, I have no clue why you'd need to cast that far, can someone inform me?

Tom

[Beresford13861]

Originally Posted by tompayne

Why the hell would you want to cast over 100 yards? If you're talking about casting on open party boats and you have to cast that far, your captain sucks. If you're talkin about from shore and have to cast that long, buy a float tube. Other then that, I have no clue why you'd need to cast that far, can someone inform me?

Tom

get past them damm seals

[NulodPBall]

There are only two basic reason I want to cast far:

1. Fishing on a large river, and the channel is on the other side.

2. Fishing with iron and I want to get a longer soak and/or a longer drop with my reel in gear.

There was an earlier post about casting 300 yards, but it wasn't a setup that I can use from a boat, if I remember correctly.

[tompayne]

<!-- / message --><!-- sig --> get past them damm seals-Beresford

That's what those torpedo sinkers are for....chuckin em at seals to knock em out and stop mollesting your fish

Tom