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Spectra to Mono/Fluoro Knot
12-21-2008, 08:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Spectra to Mono/Fluoro Knot

Have been using the Bob Sands Knot for Joining Spectra to mono/fluoro with good success. Resently discovered the Red Phillips which is similar to the Bob Sands Knot. Modified the Red Philips knot which resulted in improved knot strength and knot consistancy vs. the Bob Sands Knot.

Follow the Red Phillips Knot diagram below. But instead of using the Uni Knot use the 12 wraps up and 12 wraps down as used in the Bob Sands Knot, see partial diagram below. The improved strenght comes from the Spectra not being able to cut through the doubled mono/fluoro lines as eaisly as it can the single mono/fluoro line in the original Bob Sands Knot.

This knot is the best to date I have found for joining Spectra to mono/fluoro without using a Bimini Twist. To test it out against your present joining knot, take a length of spectra and tie lenghts of mono to both ends of the Spectra using your present knot on one end and the knot below on the other end and then pull to destruction . (ware safty glasses)
If your knot wins please post up or PM me as I would be keenely interested in what knot you are using.

Complete Bob Sands knot diagram.
Bob Sands Fishing Tackle

Walt
Attached Thumbnails
Spectra to Mono/Fluoro Knot-68799854sy1.jpg   Spectra to Mono/Fluoro Knot-4.jpg  
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12-21-2008, 08:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Thanks for that Walt!! Louie has been looking for a bullet proof knot/line for throwing his swimmies!!
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12-21-2008, 08:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The problem is that the mono/fluoro must be attached to the Spectra so the mono/fluoro is what connects to the lure eye.

I am not supprised he is loosing lures.

It is VERY difficult to tie Spectra directly to a lure ,swivel or hook. You will at best get a 50% knot using a single line of Spectra. I do not know of a good knot but If some one feels they have a good usable knot for the task above post it up and I will test it.

Walt
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12-21-2008, 08:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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thanks walt, a new knott for me to learn.

spook, i removed all the spectra, im no longer going to use that stuff.
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12-21-2008, 09:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The problem is that the mono/fluoro must be attached to the Spectra so the mono/fluoro is what connects to the lure eye.

I am not supprised he is loosing lures.

It is VERY difficult to tie Spectra directly to a lure ,swivel or hook. You will at best get a 50% knot using a single line of Spectra. I do not know of a good knot but If some one feels they have a good usable knot for the task above post it up and I will test it.

Walt
I agree with you Walt!! I've always tied a top shot when fishing spectra as tieing directly, the knots tend to slip.

:
thanks walt, a new knott for me to learn.

spook, i removed all the spectra, im no longer going to use that stuff.
I know a lot of people use straight braid for teh top water stuff but not sinkers. I like to use braid for the capacity but as long as you have atleast 150 yds mono your good. I don't see to many fish ripping 450 ft of line in the lakes!!!
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12-22-2008, 06:04 AM   #6 (permalink)
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im not a believer on spectra anymore.

when it first came out, i thought it was the most greatest thing man has made.
now , i believe its good for backing only.
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12-22-2008, 07:21 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I agree with you Walt!! I've always tied a top shot when fishing spectra as tieing directly, the knots tend to slip.

I know a lot of people use straight braid for the top water stuff but not sinkers. I like to use braid for the capacity but as long as you have at least 150 yds mono your good. I don't see to many fish ripping 450 ft of line in the lakes!!!

"I know a lot of people use straight braid for the top water stuff but not sinkers."

The reason for that is Spectra FLOATS hindering the sinking of your offering. Mono sinks slowley and Fluorocarbon sinks like a rock. If anyone gets bored for lack of entertainment, take a 1 inch pc. of Spectra, Mono and Fluoro and put them in a clear tall glass filled with water. This presents a vivid example of how the specific gravity of a material affects your fishing techniques.

Also Spectra has a coeficient of drag almost the same as Teflon. The stuff is very slippery accounting for the knot slippage. One of the reasons people seem to use Spectra in lines rated way above whats required for the task is its poor knot strength. Guys use 80lb Spectra to fish for 25lb Stripers or 10lb LMB. Using 80 lb with a knot that fails at 40 lb they are good to go.

Walt
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12-22-2008, 01:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The Bob Sands' Knot is very good just the way it is. It was all we ever use over there. When I was working there, we sent a sample of our knot to Izorline and the 100lb mono broke above 100lbs (assuming it's because 100lb izorline is actually stronger than its rating).
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12-23-2008, 06:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
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So I'm assuming the Palomar has the 50% breaking strength, single line?
What's it's breaking strength if you double the line?

I just know that the spectra is great for feel, but if I got a backlash in my spool when casting hardbait, I'd snap the 20# spectra. 60# spectra actually worked great for casting hardbait until about the 3rd day, when the coating wore off.

I'm wondering if you really need that overhand knot?
Nice diagram
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12-23-2008, 08:19 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Like CST states, the Bob Sands knot is good just the way it is. I do not know if the over hand knot as in the Red Phillips Knot is better then the uni knot as used in the Bob Sands Knot, but I do this, by paralleling the standing line and the tag line improves the strenght and consistancy of the knot.

Reguarding the Palomar knot: I will test it with Spectra using the single line and using a double line and post up the results. Be patient guys , it may be after Christmas before I can get to it. My wonderful wife has my time on a regid schedule for the next couple of days.

Walt
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12-23-2008, 08:57 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I hate tying Mono to Spectra...
I have found out that there is way simpler knots, that are quite strong....
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12-23-2008, 09:05 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I hate tying Mono to Spectra...
I have found out that there is way simpler knots, that are quite strong....
Max,
What knots are you using to join Mono to Spectra? I am definetely interested in learning a simpler knot.

Walt
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12-23-2008, 03:05 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I use basic tying knots like the Bimini Twist, San diego, or Clinch ( Double It ). I guess it would be considered " Loop to Loop Connections " they work quite well, Sometimes the mono slips because of the wax coating on the Spectra but other than that it's strong... I think that i'll post a few diagrams some time soon on the knots I typically use for these types of connections. The only down side to this would be the knots " BULKINESS " they don't go through the guides as well as splicing BUT, it's a good back up plan...
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12-25-2008, 08:28 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Ok , did some knot testing with Spectra. Here are the results.

Goal of testing:
Determine the knot strength of Spectra using a single line Palomar knot compared to the knot strength of a double line Palomar knot tied with Spectra.

Spectra Used: 30 lb Tuff Line Mfg. by Western Filament
Actual Breaking Strength: 45 lbs.

5 knots tied each.
BREAKING POINT OF EACH KNOT IN POUNDS.

SINGLE LINE PALOMAR DOUBLED LINE PALOMAR

1. 21.2 lbs 26.1 lbs
2. 20.8 28.3
3. 23.2 25.7
4. 16.7 21.5
5. 24.2 24.9
Average = 21.2 Average = 25.3

% Breaking Strength % of Breaking Strength
47% 56%

Conclusion:

Doubling the line of Spectra strenghtens the Palomar knot but not significantly. The over all knot strength is poor compared to a Palomar tied in Monofiliment which can approach 100%.

The above indicates the reason why fishermen who tie Spectra directly to lures have to use 60 lb Spectra to fish for a 15 lb fish.
The East Coast Long Distance Casting Asso. Mandates a shock leader of Monofiliment 10X the casted weight in pounds.
eg. A 5 oz casted weight demands a 50lb mono shock leader. From this requirement it can be surmised that the inertial force generated by a 5oz lure “probably” approaches something in the 25 lbs. range. Consequently pitching large Swimmies with 30lb Tuff Line Spectra using a Palomar knot you would loose a lot of lures.

Walt
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12-25-2008, 09:09 AM   #15 (permalink)
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For some reason the doubled line results would not post . So here are the complete results


SINGLE LINE PALOMAR. . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .DOUBLED LINE PALOMAR

1. 21.2. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .26.1 lbs
2. 20.8. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .28.3
3. 23.2. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .25.7
4. 16.7. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .21.5
5. 24.2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .24.9
Average = 21.2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .Average = 25.3

% Breaking Strength . . . . . . . . . . . . .% of Breaking Strength
47%. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .56%
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